When it comes to history on the 25 years that the Columbia comedy shorts were a staple in movie theaters, there was the book, "The Columbia Comedy Shorts," by Ted Okuda and Ed Watz, that has been like a bible for us genre fans. However, one individual has taken it a step further into the digital age.
Greg Hilbrich is the creator of the website
The Columbia Shorts Department. It is an always-growing "information-heavy site dedicated to the vintage theatrical short subjects of Columbia Pictures." The website is frankly, priceless, and we are indebted to Hilbrich's hard work and scholarship. Once I discovered the site, I knew we had to interview him for Plan9Crunch, and we have a treasure trove of information ahead of us. It's a long interview, but full of fascinating information, but still not nearly as much information as The Columbia Shorts Department website contains.
Enjoy the interview!
-- Doug Gibson
Plan9Crunch:
How did you become interested enough in the
Columbia comedy shorts to start a website on its history?
Hilbrich: Here's the short answer.
It all began with the Three Stooges. I was fortunate enough to grow up in the
pre-cable/satellite days when weekends on local television were made for old
Bowery Boys and Abbott and Costello comedies, Frankenstein, Dracula and The Wolfman
films and an occasional Ma and Pa Kettle or a Sherlock Holmes feature. The real
fun for me was the after-school programming, shows like Gilligan's Island and
The Munsters and old theatrical shorts like Popeye, Woody Woodpecker, The
Little Rascals and The Three Stooges. During one of these television viewings
of a Stooges short, my dad told me about how, as a kid growing up in the late
1930s and early 1940s, he rarely saw a Stooges short in the theater. Instead,
he rattled off the names of comedians he remembered seeing ... Andy Clyde, El
Brendel, Hugh Herbert and Buster Keaton. He told me how he recognized Jules
White's name (on the Stooges shorts) and that he was the same guy who made the
films of the comedians he named, (and) told me that they had the same sound effects.
His little discussion on these "other films" ended with the question "How come
they don't ever show those guys on TV anymore?" (He recalled seeing the Andy
Clyde and Buster Keaton Columbia shorts on WGN Channel 9 out of Chicago in the
early 1960s, tied into the same hour-long program with the Stooge comedies).
I asked a few more questions about his movie-going experiences, where I learned
that most of what I watched, the old Popeye and Tom and Jerry cartoons were
made to be seen in a theater too. I had always noticed the studio logos at the
beginning of them, but never quite made the connection at that age. So I went to the library and began my research. Being
such a Stooges fan, I found myself checking out books like MOE HOWARD AND THE
THREE STOOGES and THE THREE STOOGES SCRAPBOOK. In these books I would find the
names of a few of the guys my dad had mentioned, El Brendel and Andy Clyde, in
the select filmographies. I also discovered that there were short comedies starring
all three of the actors who were more popular for replacing Curly as "third Stooge." So my interest in theatrical short-subjects began ... one thing led to
another and that's when I found the book THE GREAT MOVIE SHORTS by Leonard
Maltin, a book chock-full of the information I was seeking out, but (still) I couldn't
find a single one of these films to view.
Then it happened. ... I discovered THE book ... my "bible" of sorts, THE COLUMBIA COMEDY
SHORTS by Ted Okuda and Ed Watz. This book was even more chock-full of the
information I sought as it was a complete list of every two-reel comedy
Columbia produced, 526 of them, between 1933-1958 (The book only concerned
itself with those shorts produced in Hollywood by both Jules White and Hugh
McCollum. Columbia actually produced/released thousands of one- and two-reel
subjects ranging from animated cartoons to sports reels to sing-a-long
subjects). There was information on the people in front of and behind the
scenes, release dates, actual quotes from folks who appeared in the films and
more, But even with this wealth of
information provided by Okuda and Watz, one thing that was apparent to the
question "How can I get to see some of these things?" ... was that there simply was
no easy way. So I started to look into other areas of opportunity such as
private 16mm film collectors, mom-and-pop home video companies, and Hollywood
collector shows.
Unfortunately, being new to this, I didn't turn anything up right away. My dad
died in 1992, so he never got to see any of the films he had me searching
for, but shortly after his passing, they seemed to start pouring in, Andy Clyde
and El Brendel being the first official non-Stooge Columbia shorts I got to
see.
I like to think that my dad had a lot to do with that.
So as I gathered up more shorts for my collection, I also gathered up more bits
and pieces of info that THE COLUMBIA COMEDY SHORTS book had omitted; not on
purpose, just over time, more information became available. So, with the
blessings of Ted Okuda and Ed Watz, my site became a somewhat unofficial and
very expanded follow up to their book.
Plan9Crunch: How would you describe your site to a casual web surfer
whose knowledge on the subject ends with the Three Stooges?
Hilbrich: As far as the comedy shorts go, I often describe a non-Stooge Columbia short
as being a Three Stooges film without the Three Stooges. I describe them that
way because the same folks behind the Stooge films are behind these other
shorts. Easily recognizable are the names of directors, writers, co-stars,
gags, plots and sound effects, even the style of the opening titles are all very
familiar, giving off a sense of déjà vu even to the casual Stooges viewer. Columbia
was the king of the two-reel comedy short. The unit stayed in business until
the late 1950s, and the shorts stayed in regular theatrical circulation a good
10 years after Columbia closed the doors on its short subjects division. There
was a reason why, and although the 190 shorts starring The Three Stooges were
the studio’s number-one two-reeler draw, there were another 336 two-reelers that
helped keep the unit in business. So my site explores those other films, all by
series. Originally, the site was going to focus only on the two-reel comedies,
but I decided to make the site a much wider world when it comes to the shorts
that feature the words "Columbia Pictures Presents." I offer information (when available) on every
single Columbia short either produced by the studio or produced by other
production companies and released through Columbia. Being that there are
thousands of titles, my site might be a bit much for the casual web surfer -- it's
very info-heavy -- and it could easily scare someone off. It's also a
work-in-progress, and I am doing my best to make it user friendly.
Plan9Crunch: Obviously, the Three Stooges have became iconic
and are still played today on TV. What separates their long-term appeal from
other stars, such as Buster Keaton or Harry Langdon, whose Columbia shorts are
appreciated only by a few genre fans?
Hilbrich: The Stooges are far different from
Langdon or Keaton, or most of the other comics who appear in these two-reelers,
but the shorts of Langdon and Keaton, and many others, were just as popular
when originally released.
As I mentioned earlier, not all of the shorts ran in certain areas of the
country. I've looked through old newspaper archives, for instance, and in the
area my dad grew up in and rarely saw an "Also included, a Three Stooges comedy" in the movie advertisements local theaters ran. I did find a lot of Andy Clyde,
El Brendel, Harry Langdon Columbia's advertised, even some simple "Added-Columbia
Comedy" blurbs with no description of what the short was. It was definitely
television that helped spark the Stooges' popularity (not saying they weren't
already a hit).
Because of the Stooges' television success, Columbia’s Screen
Gems released to TV a package of some 200 non-Stooge titles. Their selections
of titles are somewhat baffling, not every single short in a series was offered.
Using the Stooges' success, these films were marketed as sure-fire ratings
winners. They weren't, and disappeared from TV a short time after their initial
release (maybe turning up as fillers after a movie or during a rain delay of a
ball game). I think the reason for this was that they simply weren't the
Stooges. They usually ran in a time slot shared by other shows popular with the
after-school crowd; combined into an hour-long block of maybe, for instance, a
Bugs Bunny cartoon, a Popeye cartoon, and a Glove Slingers short. ... "Glove
Slingers? Where are the Stooges?" some kid who just rushed home from school to
catch them might ask. Now, as for Andy Clyde and Buster Keaton, I believe
because they were still in the public eye, their shorts remained in the
rotation (at least at WGN they did). Other stations, such as one in Cincinnati,
rotated through the entire package of non-Stooge shorts.
Another reason that
these films in their post-theatrical run maybe fizzled out was that there just
weren't enough of them to sustain a series of sorts. There were 190 Stooges
shorts to cycle through as a daily program, and only 10 Keaton shorts. In some
other cases, a series with Polly Moran (that was included in this non-Stooge
deal) only contained 2 titles. Yet despite their TV revival failure, a lot of
the shorts (many unobtainable today, like Harry Mimmo’s DOWN THE HATCH) were
reissued theatrically in the early 1960s.
Plan9Crunch: I have read Okuda and Watz' book, "The
Columbia Comedy Shorts," and I'd wager the casual reader would be shocked
to discover how many Columbia comedy shorts stars there were. Who are some of
your favorites among the many, including Hugh Herbert, Charley Chase, Monty Collins, El
Brendel, Vera Vague, Sterling Holloway, Schilling and Lane, Baer and
Rosenbloom, Shemp Howard, Joe Besser ... and so many more?
Hilbrich: I was one of those who was shocked to see how many comics
Columbia starred in two-reelers. My favorite of these others are Andy Clyde,
followed by El Brendel. Hugh Herbert’s films are fun when he's paired with
Dudley Dickerson, but I like them all; even the worst of the shorts have a
moment or two, well, maybe not KIDS WILL BE KIDS (1954), Jules White’s answer to
the then-popular theatrical reissues of Hal Roach’s Our Gang (The Little
Rascals) comedies.
Plan9Crunch:
What can we do to get more of these other
Columbia shorts into public consumption? I love Harry Langdon and have managed
to see most of his Columbia shorts via YouTube, and I bought the DVD release of
Keaton's shorts. But it's a tough task finding these non-Stooges shorts, and
recently I've noticed Langdon shorts being taken down from You Tube by Sony for
copyright reasons!!?? I would hope Sony would release Langdon's Columbia
shorts, but that seems like a fantasy wish.
Hilbrich: I hope that because Sony is pulling some
of the shorts that were posted on You Tube that it's a sign that these little
films could be coming to the On Demand DVD service (or maybe even TCM) in the
near future. A while back, an online petition was formed to get the Columbia
Charley Chase shorts onto DVD -- that finally happened (the set was almost
sidelined by the poor reception the Keaton set received). The Chase shorts
were made available through the Sony On Demand dvd-r service. A bonus included
the Chase-directed Columbia short A NAG IN THE BAD with comics Smith and Dale. Perhaps a petition would help see at least some other shorts in the
future.
The two-reelers have crept their way onto DVD. A beautiful restoration of
MIDNIGHT BLUNDERS with Tom Kennedy and Monty Collins appears on a set of
Columbia horror films, PHONY CRONIES with El Brendel appears on one of the
budget Stooges DVD sets, and Andy Clyde’s HOT PAPRIKA appears as an extra on a
Hammer Studios pirate-themed set. All but two solo Stooges' Columbia shorts are
available on in the Ultimate Stooges DVD set, included are a couple of Andy
Clyde and Glove Slingers shorts that co-star Shemp Howard (as well as the Shemp
Howard-El Brendel team up PICK A PECK OF PLUMBERS). The two titles missing are NOT GUILTY ENOUGH
(Andy Clyde with Shemp Howard) and a early Joe Besser short produced by Ben
Blake called CUCKOORANCHO. I highly recommend this Ultimate Stooges set.
Plan9Crunch: What's the most fulfilling aspect of your Columbia blog
for you? Is it tracking down the shorts posters, bio info on the stars, or
finding new locations or websites where many of the shorts exist, or something
else?
Hilbrich: I love researching this subject, collecting lobby cards and one-sheets
for these little two-reelers is fun, but the most fulfilling thing about
collecting information about these mostly forgotten films has been helping
family members of those who either appear on screen or were behind the scenes
during the production actually get to see the films. Harry von Zell's daughter,
for example, had no idea that her father ever appeared in his own two-reel
comedy series and was floored by what she saw when I sent her some of the films
I have in my collection. Why she didn't know he appeared in two-reelers was
answered by the fact that he just never mentioned it. Another person who comes
to mind is the son of Stooges writer Searle Kramer. He knew his dad worked on
Stooges shorts (some of their best, I feel), but had no info or had ever seen
the other Columbia films his dad wrote or co-wrote, and I helped him obtain
copies of several.
Plan9Crunch: I've noticed there are lost Columbia shorts. Do
you think it's more that they haven't been properly looked for or that they are
really lost?
Hilbrich: I think it's a mixed bag. I know of a few
titles that no material exist on, but I think for the most part, they're out
there. I know of a few one-of-a kind prints in private collectors hands, and I
know of a few that have been publicly screened that I'd love to get copies of
(Harry Mimmo's DOWN THE HATCH in 3D and ROOTIN TOOTIN TENDERFEET, a Max Baer
and Maxie Rosenbloom short that was a reworking of Laurel and Hardy's WAY OUT
WEST). Probably not the best shorts, but it's nice to know that they're out
there, especially with the recent discovery of HELLO POP, a Ted Healy short
featuring Moe, Larry and Curly that was made at MGM, that was once on top of
the "lost pile," so there's hope.
On a personal note, I finally tracked down a print of MITT ME TONIGHT, the fifth short in the Glove Slingers series. It was part of the Screen Gems' TV package
for syndication, but it's been a tough one for me to track down. There were 12
Glove Slingers shorts produced, and I believe only the first 8 titles were in
the TV package. A "Holy Grail" of sorts is the last of the Glove Slingers series, HIS GIRL’S WORST FRIEND, as it features my pal Parry Hall's father, Eddie Hall.
Plan9Crunch: There were scores of supporting players in the Columbia
shorts, Vernon Dent, Christine McIntire, Dick Curtis ... Who are some of your
favorite supporting players?
Hilbrich: I am a big fan of Vernon Dent. Christine McIntyre always stands out, but
my favorite is Emil Sitka. That man could have had his own series. His
on-screen antics are often funnier than the star player's, to which a
comparison to James Finlayson of the Laurel and Hardy subjects was always made
by my dad whenever Sitka was on screen. He's always a focal point, no matter how
large or small his role is. He's terrific in Billie Burke’s BILLIE GETS HER MAN
(1948) and in the role as Hugh Herbert's
uncle in HOT HEIR (1947), a role he would improve upon in its remake, GENTS IN
A JAM (1952) with The Three Stooges. And then there's his role as the preacher
in BRIDELESS GROOM. Can you imagine one of the other supporting players, such
as Vernon Dent or Dick Wessel in that role? Neither can I.
Plan9Crunch: The Columbia shorts had a certain slapstick style,
influenced by Jules White and made very popular by the Three Stooges. What
impact, in your opinion, did Columbia's more physical style of comedy have on
the success, or lack of success, stars such as Keaton, Langdon, Chase and
others had. Also, did Columbia leave the lasting impression on comedy shorts,
in the same manner that, for example, Glenn Strange's Frankenstein Monster is
more iconic than Boris Karloff's monster?
Hilbrich: It's funny that you bring up the Frankenstein comparison, as I
associate Glenn Strange with that role over Boris Karloff, too.
Columbia cornered the market on 15-20 minute slapstick
comedies with their unique, mostly overly violent tones. But the Stooges' style
of slapstick comedy in these Columbia shorts is really different and the boys take
it up a notch, even when compared to a short like TRAINING FOR TROUBLE with Gus
Schilling and Richard Lane that recycles the same or very similar plot line and
gags. There is a smoother flow to the Stooge films, and there is a flat-out
attraction to their characterization of human beings. In a Stooges short, Moe,
in retaliation will pick up a shovel and swing it into Larry's face as a form
of punishment, with a CLANG sound effect. In an El Brendel two-reeler, El might
pick up that same prop shovel to begin to throw it over his shoulder, and with
that same sound effect of a CLANG, he clips Tom Kennedy in the head. It's an
accident that is forgiven, leaving El to be happy. Moe wasn't on the other end
of that shovel.
The moments of slapstick throughout these shorts are all very
similar, vases get broken over people's heads, monsters or goons chase people
through hallways, gun fire blows hats off heads, but it's all a little different
than how those same situations appear in the shorts of the Three Stooges. The cartoon violence that is softened by those
sound effects mentioned earlier are handled very well in the Stooge shorts, and
for that reason the sound effects work better with them. The Jules White
approach to the violent style of slapstick does outshine other studios' short-subjects of the era just because that style is much more outlandish in
approach and execution.
As for the success or lack of success this style of comedy had on others like
Charley Chase or Harry Langdon, I don't think it was lost in first release. If
you look through older reviews in trade magazines, audiences ate it up; the
shorts were popular, even shorts that we might look at today as being just
so-so. Keaton’s Columbia shorts are
looked at today as being awful. I really don't think they are as bad as the
shorts he made at Educational, and they are definitely 10 times better than the
stuff he did for MGM in the early 1930s. Are they as good as his early 1920s
output, no, they aren’t. The style is very much off from what viewers today are
used to seeing when compared to his silents , and the use of stunt doubles or
rear-screen projection can be jarring, but audiences of the day welcomed his
films, and I don't think they compared something like THE GENERAL to his
Columbia short MOOCHING THROUGH GEORGIA. He was a familiar face from the past
once again bringing laughs to the screen.
If anything, it was the release of
the films to television that spawned a lack of success; again going back to what
I mentioned earlier, the films were broadcast during a time slot children were
used to seeing the Stooges in. And the Stooges had more childlike appeal, with Curly’s mannerisms. A good example of a
Columbia shorts series being a close second to the Stooges in appeal to both
theatrical audiences and younger television viewers later are those starring Andy
Clyde. His "old man" character is the draw, a likable goof that wanders into
slapstick situations but never comes off as too stupid to sympathize with (as
Laurel and Hardy do (to me at least) in their later films for Fox.
Slapstick was the focus of 90 percent of Columbia's two-reel comedies, especially
those directed by Jules White. Ed Bernds' approach at directing the shorts
sometimes allow an actual story line to develop and conclude in the brief 16-18
minutes with outlandish bits of slapstick peppered throughout. A Jules White
short might end on a sight gag with no conclusion to the story line, and some
vote that the Stooges shorts at his helm are much more cruel, even with the
sound effects softening the violence. TV stations took notice, and some of the
gags, for either sensitive material that was a product of the times or extreme
amounts of violence, cartoonish or not, were either cut by Screen Gems
themselves or by in-house television station editors.
The most violent scene in
Columbia shorts history was not even a product of Jules White, but instead by
director Del Lord in THEY STOOGE TO CONGA (1943) with The Three Stooges. It's
the now-famous climbing spike gag, in which Curly drives a spike into Moe's
eye. It's been reported that Screen Gems did not include this short in its
rotation of Stooge comedies for syndication, but that is not true. Now whether
or not stations chose not to use this short in their lineup or have their in-house editors remove the climbing
spike clip, I'll never know. I'm sure a little of both happened, but I own a
Screen Gems print of this title, climbing spike gag and all intact. But even with some of these shorts slightly
edited for violent content, we'll never really know how many kids busted each
other's skulls open with a hammer or cut off one another's noses with a pair of
scissors, but I think it's pretty safe to say that very few kids were sent to
the ER for 32 stitches because one of their pals playing Moe ran a hacksaw across
their heads.
Plan9Crunch: What future plans do you have for the site? Any chance of
a convention with a full slate of shorts with those players we can't access on
TV today?
Hilbrich: The site is still, and will most likely always be, a work-in-progress since I
am always updating it with new or expanded information that I continue to find
daily, which I couldn't do by myself, so I do feature a page of acknowledgement
to all of those who have helped me out. One of the biggest challenges for me is
finding information on the less-popular one-reel subjects, especially those
from the early 1930s. I've managed to gather up titles, but I'm still working
on production credits and the synopsis. There are a few other things in the works,
like a media player and gallery for photos of the one-sheets, lobby cards and
other bits of related material. There are also some other pages to the site
that I am working on, pages with mini-bios for the writers, directors and other
behind-the-scenes folks.
The site is also on the way to becoming a dot com site, so you won't have to type
in a thousand-letter web address. I'd love to do a screening of the
shorts, maybe one day that will happen, but I don't have anything planned.